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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2822	Posted - 2013.02.04 00:57:00 - [1] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: i've just read the OP again, and i'm struggling to figure out how this isn't a troll thread. It's full of sensible and balanced ideas to trade off the use and abuse of wardec immunity through evenhanded disincentives, so I can imagine how the more emotional and vulnerable-feeling EVE-GD posters would consider it extremely provocative.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2822	Posted - 2013.02.04 01:02:00 - [2] - Quote Personally, I think there is no way to truly make a wardec and overall PvP 'gamestyle' fit in an economically competitive player-driven PVP game and that they should all be effectively removed by making them deccable. But penning them up in some sort of 'gold farmer pen" in 0.9 and 1.0 systems might be a sensible alternative. Another good idea I heard was from Marlona Sky, saying that NPC corps should be barred from using specific kinds of ships like freighters. What do you think Sol?
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2822	Posted - 2013.02.04 01:08:00 - [3] - Quote Veterans taking advantage of mechanics intended to help rookies (like no ganking in rookie system belts) is the foundation of the whole "NPC corp" phenomenon. Let's get rid of NPC corps as a whole and help the rookies out by driving these creatures from their belts. You bring a good point Dave Stark at the perils of compromising on the issue of NPC corps - it just leads to further problems.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2823	Posted - 2013.02.04 01:18:00 - [4] - Quote Captain Tardbar wrote: Do you think CCP is going to enact changes that will detrimentally affect a large portion of their player base? We discussed this in my thread of how the forums caused CCP to change the game when it comes to mining barges being buffed because of the threads complaing about ganking. Can you imagine the threadnaughts that will ensue if your changes were enacted? CCP are more amenable to reason after the successive commercial failures of Tyrannis/Incursion/Incarna exposed the 'carebear myth' that the PVE-exclusive demographic are a driving force in EVE's playerbase or business model. Since then they have been concentrating on PvP iterations (ships) and PvP mechanics (wardecs, bounty systems) and CCP Seagull's devblog about 2013 continuing to expand on 'emergent content' and not 'new PvE zones'. Since this has been met with EVE's resumed growth, as you like to point out, this gives us a bright sign in EVE's future direction.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2823	Posted - 2013.02.04 01:21:00 - [5] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Veterans taking advantage of mechanics intended to help rookies (like no ganking in rookie system belts) is the foundation of the whole "NPC corp" phenomenon. Let's get rid of NPC corps as a whole and help the rookies out by driving these creatures from their belts. You bring a good point Dave Stark at the perils of compromising on the issue of NPC corps - it just leads to further problems. or you could just move the starting systems away from the trade hubs. And the NPC corp miners will follow. We've had other NPC corp posters go on about mining out the rookie systems because of the free anti-gank security on top of their free anti-wardec security. They felt it was fair trade to mine out the rookie systems because the rookies got to listen to his gameplay advise on how to achieve the ultimate riskadverse veld mining dream.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2824	Posted - 2013.02.04 01:34:00 - [6] - Quote Captain Tardbar wrote: Well you have to keep in mind if people are in NPC corps and using that system a great deal that they must really enjoy the benefits of said system. Botters really enjoy the benefits of botting. What's your point?
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2827	Posted - 2013.02.04 01:55:00 - [7] - Quote Aren Madigan wrote: All I'm getting out of this is you don't like how other players play and are stamping your feet to get it change, despite the fact that it'd make things so restrictive to new players that it would destroy CCP's current stated goal of attracting new blood... so how is this a good idea? And yes, I read the whole post, it still comes off as this way. In the end you're making things ridiculous for new players for the sake of stopping oldbies from taking advantage. Come up with an alternative that won't screw legitimate players over. NPC corps don't really benefit new players at all. Newbies have access to the least EHP (making suiciding them trivial) and enabling the "oldbies" to put their cumulative wealth into increasing their ISK farming yield, slowly devaluing the purchasing power of ISK/commodities per unit, gradually decreasing the effective wealth a newbie can generate. Newbies are also the least familiar with the PVP evasion techniques that oldbies use regularly. They benefit the 5-year vet in an NPC corp mining out the rookie system belts because of the GM's anti-rookie harassing policy, not the rookies who the belts were intended for. My alternative is simply remove the protections afforded to NPC corps to all equally. Make individuals deccable as if they were one-man corps. What could be more fair then total equality? Nobody is being punished, nobody singled out or afforded special treatment, everyone on an even footing.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2828	Posted - 2013.02.04 02:30:00 - [8] - Quote The New Order is an excellent example of how wardec evasion and NPC corps 'protect newbies' by enabling a 7-year old character to harass them in belts all day.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2828	Posted - 2013.02.04 02:47:00 - [9] - Quote Whitehound wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: The New Order is an excellent example of how wardec evasion and NPC corps 'protect newbies' by enabling a 7-year old character to harass them in belts all day. They have their own corps and alliance. Check for CODE. please. CODE wasn't always around, check James' turning wardec evasion in on itself here please.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2828	Posted - 2013.02.04 03:15:00 - [10] - Quote Whitehound wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Whitehound wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: The New Order is an excellent example of how wardec evasion and NPC corps 'protect newbies' by enabling a 7-year old character to harass them in belts all day. They have their own corps and alliance. Check for CODE. please. CODE wasn't always around, check James' turning wardec evasion in on itself here please. Well, thank you, but I do already know about it, and James himself does not do anything and it is his good right to stay in an NPC corporation or to create as well as disband a corporation. He is not your problem nor are NPC corporations one. Mmm, your tune changed fast.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2844	Posted - 2013.02.04 17:19:00 - [11] - Quote Nikk Narrel wrote: We need to stop demonizing the NPC corps this way. They are not horrible things, and they do give a support structure for players who want minimum presence of combat oriented PvP. (They don't mind competing for sales orders to sell their ore or looted items, but the idea of being shot by other players simply has no appeal to them) Precisely why they need to go. Maybe we could bar them from participating in the player economy and they can grind up a second kind of currency only usable to buy things that can't have an effect on the economy.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2844	Posted - 2013.02.04 17:21:00 - [12] - Quote Amenotep Polo wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: EVe features non-consensual pvp in all areas of space. You suggestion goes against a core principle of EVE. I don't think npc corps should be war dec vulnerable, but the price players pay for the protection is tto low. AND it's uneven, npc corp mission/incursions runners and explorers pay taxes, no one else in an npc corp really does does. HURR DURR LETS KILL NEW PLAYERS IN A MINING FRIGATE DURR HURR - This seems to be the reasoning behind people that want npc corps dead. We've already established that NPC corps hurt newbies, not help them. Why some people feel risk-adverse veterans should be able to steamroll newbies economically is beyond me. Maybe this NPC corp defending is just a front for anti-newbie, anti-casual sentiment. Amenotep Polo wrote: Honestly though, 90% of war decs are pure cowardice/kill mail feeding crap. This is because veterans and rich highsec targets, the ones who fly in multi-bil loadouts and could easily afford escorts and defense, through things like NPC corps, are the best at avoiding wardecs. Ban NPC corps and remove wardec evasion, you put everyone on an even footing. The newbie goes unnoticed and conspicuous wealth and investing all your cumulative wealth into isk grinding incurs costs of their own.

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